laku je napisal/a:

cbb je napisal/a: Pa kaj je s tabo? Kje sem napisal, da je knjiga za en k? Napisal sem, kaj me je zmotilo, in prav je tako. Kar pa se ostale vsebine tiče, je popolnoma OK. Če pa se ne morete sprijazniti, da je v knjigi lapsus, pa to ni moj problem. Je pa stvar taka - sam sem kot novinar delal kar nekaj časa, objavljenih imam več kot 300 člankov. Za vsako stvar, pod katero sem se podpisal lahko rečem, da 100% drži in je preverjena. Ta tisto, o čemer govorimo tu temu ni tako. Mene bi blo sram, če bi bil novinar od leta 2004 in nebi ločil dveh besed: novosti in izboljšave. In ko zaj****, še priznaš ne. Odličen si.

tebe je lahko sram za marsikaj. v knjigi piše - citiram:

"Nekaj novosti in izboljšav, ki so jih uvedli applovi izdelki".

torej imamo spisek, v katerem so novosti in izboljšave, ki so jih uvedli applovi izdelki. Ja? Ustavil se bom samo pri eni - grafični vmesnik. To ni ne novost (Xerox jo je pogruntal) ne izboljšava, ki bi jo apple uvedel, ker jo je Xerox uporabil že prej. Isto je z miško, isto je z WYSIWYG. No, pa ti povej, kako si mora uporabnik razložit tisto pisanje?

Poleg tega pa - zdaj berem še naprej... A je to kdo lektoriral? Dostpop v ang. se napiše Access in ne Acess, Solid state disk ima okrajšavo SSD in ne SDD... Saj vem, tiskarski škrat... My ass.

naporen si. obrni se na avtorja in mu priznaj kredite za podvig. istočasno ga pa opozori na napake, ki bodo pri morebitnem ponatisu zagotovo odpravljene...

sicer pa je tema povsem nekonstruktivna. pa ne zarai poante "dejmo tule zbrat napake in tiskarske škrate, bomo participiral pri boljšem ponatisu" ampak zaradi nadrkanosti in tvoje popolnosti, ki seva iz tebe.

Če smo že pri tem kdo je izumil GUI in miš, gre zgodovina nekak takole (se mi ne da prevajat):

1962 - Sketchpad is developed at MIT by Ivan Sutherland

1964 - The first mouse-like pointing device is created by Douglas Engelbart at SRI International.

1969 - Alan Kay develops the concept of GUI in his dissertation research at the University of Utah.

- Bell Labs developed the first frame buffer for storing and displaying 3-bit images. The frame buffer was an essential to the bitmapped technology of later GUIs.

itd ... no vsi skupaj so potem zaključili v Xeroxovem razvojnem centru. Razvijalci in inženirji so to skup spravli v Xeroxovem razvojnem centru ja, drži. Ampak očitno Xerox ni imel namena oz. ni vedel kaj naj s tem kar so naredili inženiriji. Če bi vedel, potem bi imeli Xerox Bravo Word, Xerox PDF, Xerox Ethernet mrežne kartice, Xerox Windows Visto in miške z Xeroxovim logotipom gor, pa nimamo.

Kdo je vse skup pognal naprej in naredil uporabniku prijazno? Se ti ne zdi, da so to bili Applovi izdelki, ki so upeljali te novosti in izboljšave?

Apple did not "rip-off" the Macs UI from Xerox. Apple had hired some people from Xerox (like Jef Raskin, Bruce Horn) who believed in concepts of a Graphical User Interface.

Apple's work on GUI's predates Steve Jobs visit to Palo Alto Research Center. Apple had already had the same broad goals of offering an easier to use computer, and possibly using some of the same concept (like menus, icons, and graphics).

Remember the following: Icons were not new, we had been using them for years for international street signs and so on -- they were only new on computers. Menus were not new, text based menus were being used and had been for a while. Graphics weren't new, though how much they were relied upon was new. The concepts of User Interface (Human Factors) was not new, it was just a little newer in applying it to computers.

Jef Raskin had worked at Xerox, and he was tooting the "easier to use" trumpet, with his vision of what that meant. He brought some of those ideas from Xerox, but he had brought some of those ideas TO Xerox as well. Later, he convinced Jobs to visit Xerox PARC, and Jobs became an immediate convert (for ease of use).

What Jobs saw at Xerox was a prototype Smalltalk development system. He did not see either a working ALTO or Star (which was developed much later).

citirano do tuakj http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ui_history.html

OziOne je napisal/a:

naporen si. obrni se na avtorja in mu priznaj kredite za podvig. istočasno ga pa opozori na napake, ki bodo pri morebitnem ponatisu zagotovo odpravljene... sicer pa je tema povsem nekonstruktivna. pa ne zarai poante "dejmo tule zbrat napake in tiskarske škrate, bomo participiral pri boljšem ponatisu" ampak zaradi nadrkanosti in tvoje popolnosti, ki seva iz tebe.

Kredite sem že priznal. Problem je samo v tem, ko nočete priznat, da je v knjigi lapsus. Zame je to isto, kot če bi notri pisalo, da je apple pogruntal elektriko. In to ni prav. Poanta je, da se avtor tistega ni poglobil v informacije, ki jih je napisal. In to zopet ni prav. Če pa se ti zdi, recimo, da se lahko kar nekaj piše v knjigah, pa čeprav nepreverjeno, pa lahko nrp. nekam napišemo, da si ti gej. Se strinjaš s tem? Ti je popolnoma vseeno? Verjemi, če bi tako traparijo napisali v ameriški izdaji knjige, potem bi že padla tožba...

macuser je napisal/a:

Če smo že pri tem kdo je izumil GUI in miš, gre zgodovina nekak takole (se mi ne da prevajat): 1962 - Sketchpad is developed at MIT by Ivan Sutherland 1964 - The first mouse-like pointing device is created by Douglas Engelbart at SRI International. 1969 - Alan Kay develops the concept of GUI in his dissertation research at the University of Utah. - Bell Labs developed the first frame buffer for storing and displaying 3-bit images. The frame buffer was an essential to the bitmapped technology of later GUIs. itd ... no vsi skupaj so potem zaključili v Xeroxovem razvojnem centru. Razvijalci in inženirji so to skup spravli v Xeroxovem razvojnem centru ja, drži. Ampak očitno Xerox ni imel namena oz. ni vedel kaj naj s tem kar so naredili inženiriji. Če bi vedel, potem bi imeli Xerox Bravo Word, Xerox PDF, Xerox Ethernet mrežne kartice, Xerox Windows Visto in miške z Xeroxovim logotipom gor, pa nimamo. Kdo je vse skup pognal naprej in naredil uporabniku prijazno? Se ti ne zdi, da so to bili Applovi izdelki, ki so upeljali te novosti in izboljšave? Apple did not "rip-off" the Macs UI from Xerox. Apple had hired some people from Xerox (like Jef Raskin, Bruce Horn) who believed in concepts of a Graphical User Interface. Apple's work on GUI's predates Steve Jobs visit to Palo Alto Research Center. Apple had already had the same broad goals of offering an easier to use computer, and possibly using some of the same concept (like menus, icons, and graphics). Remember the following: Icons were not new, we had been using them for years for international street signs and so on -- they were only new on computers. Menus were not new, text based menus were being used and had been for a while. Graphics weren't new, though how much they were relied upon was new. The concepts of User Interface (Human Factors) was not new, it was just a little newer in applying it to computers. Jef Raskin had worked at Xerox, and he was tooting the "easier to use" trumpet, with his vision of what that meant. He brought some of those ideas from Xerox, but he had brought some of those ideas TO Xerox as well. Later, he convinced Jobs to visit Xerox PARC, and Jobs became an immediate convert (for ease of use). What Jobs saw at Xerox was a prototype Smalltalk development system. He did not see either a working ALTO or Star (which was developed much later). citirano do tuakj http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ui_history.html

Končno. Vendar ni zapisano tako, da bi se lahko razumelo tako kot navajaš tule. Pisati bi moralo: nekaj tujih inovacij, ki jih je apple začel uporabljati pri svojih izdelkih...

jaz še zdaj ne vidim lapsusa? cbb preberi malo, če bi že hotel dlagocepit potem si vsekakor zasluge za miško zasluži Douglas Engelbart kateri koncept je razvil že leta 1964 v Standfordskem razvojenm centru ...

macuser je napisal/a:

jaz še zdaj ne vidim lapsusa? cbb preberi malo, če bi že hotel dlagocepit potem si vsekakor zasluge za miško zasluži Douglas Engelbart kateri koncept je razvil že leta 1964 v Standfordskem razvojenm centru ...

Koncept ni isto, kot izdelek.

Xerox tudi ni imel izdelka, imel je pravtako koncept oz. šele leta 1981 računalniško DELOVNO postajo, ki je imela naštete lastnosti, Mac je bil pa OSEBNI računalnik namenjen vsem "for the rest of us"

Ne vem zakaj sem se spomnil pregovora: "Rđavom ku*cu i dlaka smeta"

Cbb pa kaj bi ti pravzaprav rad? 15 EUR nazaj? Ni problema, pošlji mi svoj priročnik pa ti nakažem kupnino.

Zdaj pa nehaj zajebavat ljudi, ki se so se potrudili in prvič na sončni strani alp skup spravli nekaj takega. Saj mi je popolnoma jasno, da nisi v stanju priznat napake. Pa saj je tudi ne rabiš, samo nehaj že enkrat pljuvat.

Temo pa zapret, prosim, ker vse skup nima več smisla.

P.S.
Pa ne se zdaj obešat na "prvič na sončni strani alp", ker ne vem ali je ali ni. Se mi pa zdi da je.

tako tema bo zaprta, naslednjo popravljeno knjigo pa dobiš od mene for free